Bridge from Coaching to Counselling at Rhodes Wellness College

Jameson Dean: Hello and welcome to the Rhodes Wellness Podcast. My name is Jameson Dean and I work here at Rhodes Wellness College in admissions as an admissions specialist. I also come from ten years of work in the wellness industry — coaching, counselling, intuitive work, and end of life doula work. Today I’m joined by a wonderful guest, Vanessa de Souza. Vanessa, please introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are, what you do, and what brings you here today.

Vanessa de Souza: Thanks so much, Jameson. My name is Vanessa and I am the Supervisor of Life Skills Counselling at Rhodes Wellness College. I’ve been with the college for just about three years now as a faculty member and most recently in a supervisory role, supporting students and faculty through the second semester. I’m a registered social worker and psychotherapist, and I’ve been working in the field of mental health for well over ten years. I’ve been able to bring those experiences to the students at Rhodes, and I’ve also learned quite a lot along the way myself.

Jameson Dean: Amazing to hear. So — a student who’s constantly learning, and also the supervisor of semester two. For anyone who isn’t familiar, semester two is where students transition from coaching in semester one into becoming more counselling-informed. In the Life Coach Diploma that’s the second of two semesters. In the Wellness Counselling Diploma it’s the second of four. In the Professional Counselling Diploma it’s the second of six. And just to note — this doesn’t apply to our Nutrition, RMT, or End of Life Doula programs. This is really about learning basic counselling, employment counselling, youth and family counselling, trauma counselling, addictions counselling, and clinical practice and assessment. So Vanessa — when a client brings something up from their past that’s getting in their way, how does a coach in semester two learn to hold that and when do they refer out?

Vanessa de Souza: That’s truly the essence of second semester — supporting students in learning what line to toe given their practice. When is it appropriate to refer out for certain challenges given their scope, and when is it helpful to stay in and continue the work?

Jameson Dean: Can you give us a highlight of Basic Counselling specifically — what it teaches and why it comes first?

Vanessa de Souza: Absolutely. Basic Counselling is the prerequisite course for the rest of the semester — all students completing the transition from coaching into second semester will complete Basic Counselling first, and that’s intentional. It’s by design. It ensures students come in understanding the differences between coaching skills and introductory counselling skills. Being able to hold space in heavier emotions than they’ve maybe typically held in coaching. Learning how to attune to clients with the same compassion, but with an added layer — if there’s more intensity in the room, how do they navigate that? And it’s not just about what we can offer clients. It’s also about how we do that for ourselves as helpers, and ensuring that we’re creating a container for relationship in the room.

Jameson Dean: So it’s very much about how the helper holds their own emotion, compartmentalizing it, understanding the self-care that’s needed — while also knowing that they’re not there to conduct a full CBT session, because they don’t have that training yet. That comes later — in semester three or four for the Wellness Counselling or Professional Counselling Diploma. What comes after Basic Counselling?

Vanessa de Souza: Yeah, there’s a lot of variety. We ensure all students complete Basic Counselling first to build those foundations — holding space, assessment skills, learning to ask probing questions to elicit meaningful information from clients. After that, the order will vary. It might be Employment, Youth and Family, Addiction — these are all tasters, by the way. We’re not expecting students to walk out as experts in these areas. Rather, it’s about getting a sense of what it would be like to work within that space, or how to respond if these topics come up in session.

Jameson Dean: Right — and the second semester also becomes more academic in nature than semester one. More theory, reflection papers, assignments, presentations with more layers. Where coaching is more present-moment and goal-oriented — what thoughts do we need to change to get out of our own way and move forward — counselling starts to open up someone’s history, to look back at what’s shaped who they are today. How they can heal from that, feel from it, and move forward in a more adaptive way. Would you agree?

Vanessa de Souza: Beautifully put, Jameson. That’s truly the difference between coaching and counselling, and semester two is where we really stress that difference. Second semester does start to open the door to more academic learning in terms of theory — however, the experiential component remains. Students are still learning from one another, from the instructor, from lived experience being shared and applied practically in the room. It’s almost comparable to aspects of group processing, where folks offer their own experience while implementing what they’re learning in terms of theory.

Jameson Dean: What led you to work at Rhodes as supervisor of semester two?

Vanessa de Souza: Great question — because when I share my title with people, they often go, “huh, what’s a social worker doing at a coaching and counselling college?” What’s beautiful about my training is that I’ve been prepared to wear many different hats: coach, advocate, counsellor, leader, resource navigator. I saw so many values overlap with Rhodes Wellness College. The approach is person-first, which is something I’ve always appreciated. And that experiential component — that’s actually what I specifically sought out when I did my Master of Social Work, to ensure there was a practical, embodied element to the training. I was born and raised in Calgary, trained in Toronto, and didn’t know this existed in Vancouver. When I found it, it was remarkable. And even though I’m not a Rhodes graduate, I feel like an honorary Roadie. What brought me here was seeing students change for the better — widening their own window of tolerance, increasing their emotional capacity, living more in alignment with who they want to be. Whether they continue in coaching or go into counselling, that shift is priceless.

Jameson Dean: And as a graduate of this program myself, I can attest to feeling so much more aware of my own mind, heart, and what I would call soul — and finding so much more comfort in who I am in that place. I didn’t have a lot of spiritual upbringing and I felt a bit lost in life. But learning things like cognitive behavioural therapy — understanding how thoughts lead to feelings and feelings lead to actions — helped things start to make sense. It brought more contentment in the present moment because I had these well-tested, well-researched foundational teachings that added trust and faith in myself and my way forward.

Vanessa de Souza: Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s so important for potential and current students to hear what this process is like, because it’s unique from traditional academic programming. And I’ll add — having done the traditional academic route myself, I have changed for the better because of Rhodes. As faculty, we’re also embodying what we teach. We’re sharing pieces of ourselves with our students, not just our experiences with clients, but who we are as humans. That we’re fallible, imperfect. There will be mistakes. But how do we practice self-responsibility? If there are ruptures in relationships with our clients, how do we own up to that and move forward?

Jameson Dean: When you said that, all I could think of was humility. We’re all humans, trying our very best — to be kind, to be loving, to be caring — while also trying to be emotionally aware of where we’re falling short. Navigating that, learning and growing, self-forgiving and forgiving others. That sense of community, of unconditional positive regard, of nonviolent communication — it all comes into this experience that is personally helping you learn and grow, so that you can professionally show up well and help others.

Vanessa de Souza: As you were speaking, the word that came to me was authenticity. And that’s also something I can reflect back on from my own training — the emphasis placed on showing up as a clean slate, a neutral presence. And that’s one way to look at the counselling room. But I think we’re also missing something when we do that. Not all cultures and populations resonate with that style. It creates a power hierarchy in the space when the intention was to level it out. If your true self isn’t in the room with the client, they’ll feel that. Rhodes is encouraging students to develop their own styles through their own healing, and then show up in the counselling space with that authenticity.

Jameson Dean: I completely agree. And there’s a balance — being authentic while also being professional. Not cold or clinical, but creating that warm, safe feeling that really helps the client feel seen and heard. That safe space for their own success, in their own unique way and at their own pace.

Vanessa de Souza: Yes — and professionalism is graded from the very beginning at Rhodes. In every course, every semester, students are assessed on professionalism. That’s quite unique. Students are showing up in the classroom in the same way they would show up with clients. It becomes so inherent to their practice that it’s no longer a checklist. It’s just who they are.

Jameson Dean: It’s not second nature — it’s first nature.

Vanessa de Souza: Yes! So true.

Jameson Dean: Some people come into this work because they’ve never been supported by anyone else in that way — and they wish they had been. It’s almost like they’re doing this for their past self. Giving their past self what they always wanted.

Vanessa de Souza: Exactly.

Jameson Dean: And from my vantage point in admissions, the range of people who come through is remarkable — ages 17 all the way to people in their 70s and 80s. Second, third, fourth careers. Grandparents, parents. Some already have a job lined up that required them to do this training. Others are simply lifelong learners who feel called to this work. It’s such an interesting spectrum.

Vanessa de Souza: It’s remarkable. The variety in each cohort. And that’s also why I love this program — it’s accessible to folks from all walks of life. And I think that’s so important, that helpers come from the communities they want to serve. Students bring so much wisdom into the room. Even as an instructor with many years in this field, I’m still learning every day. Our students bring wisdom, different cultural experiences, different beliefs and values — and that helps everyone in the class learn from different perspectives, remove biases, eradicate assumptions. You could have anyone from any background come to you as a client. It’s vital to being a helper to be able to sit with opposing truths.

Jameson Dean: And that transference piece — for those who aren’t familiar, transference is essentially what comes up within you as a helper that gets in the way of the client session. They bring up a loss in their life, and you think about your own loss, and suddenly you’re both crying — but now it’s about two people’s pain, not just theirs. That’s transference. And it’s not conducive to the session they’re paying for.

Vanessa de Souza: Exactly. And it’s important to know that most of the time this isn’t intentional. Nobody goes into a session planning to get their own needs met. It just happens. This program teaches students to build awareness around what things have weight or stickiness — what they may need to continue working on — so that it doesn’t come into sessions without their knowledge.

Jameson Dean: And that’s where self-care and your own outside-of-work practice comes in. If something comes up in a session, I try to identify it, put it on a mental shelf, and come back to it in my own therapeutic work. Which brings us to self-care. Do you want to speak to that?

Vanessa de Souza: Oh my goodness, what a term. This is echoed throughout the program from every faculty member. If I were introducing it for the first time: self-care is offering yourself space and time to nourish yourself in ways that give you more capacity. That nurture your emotional wellbeing. That fill your social cup — or help you recognise when you need alone time, and give yourself permission to say no. It really is about building awareness of what you need. Because we can only complete self-care if we know what we need.

Jameson Dean: And knowing what we need — like any skill — is a muscle. For me, lying on the ground and staring at the ceiling sometimes actually helps. As weird as that sounds, I’ve done it in difficult moments and it’s worked. But if you haven’t practiced that, haven’t found the things that honour your nervous system and your emotions, it’s hard to know what to reach for when something surfaces professionally in session.

Vanessa de Souza: Self-care isn’t just face masks and bubble baths. It’s specific to the need at hand. Personally, I lay on the floor and cuddle my dog between sessions. I’ve absolutely done that — because sometimes you just need immediate grounding before coming back in and sitting with someone who’s paying, who is deserving of all of your attention.

Jameson Dean: Can you walk us through what clinic weeks look like in semester two?

Vanessa de Souza: Absolutely. There are usually three clinic weeks within second semester, and each is one week long. Within that week, students might write an exam or two for their current courses. They spend time with a facilitator exploring common challenges and situations that could arise in their work with clients. And then they have time to meet with peers to do sessions — to get a real taste of what a session looks like in this space, knowing what they know now. How do you write a note based on that? What are the administrative tasks associated with being a helper? How do you get into the practice of doing that ethically and competently? It’s treated just like any other class — Monday to Friday, 9am to 1:30pm Pacific on Zoom. They’re important weeks because they give students a chance to synthesise the information and try it on for size. But here you actually need to work through full hour-long sessions with your peers.

Jameson Dean: So that’s the Clinical Practice and Assessment — the 67.5-hour component?

Vanessa de Souza: That’s right. And by the end of second semester, students do walk away with a lot more confidence in their skills. The nature of the semester does shift and change in a few different ways, but it genuinely delivers on confidence by the time it wraps up.

Jameson Dean: If I were to summarise semester two in a sentence — and tell myself now what I know having been through it — I’d say each semester builds you about ten percent. By the time you’re through all of them, you’ve got over ten of those. And then you look back and realise how far you’ve come. The infinite value of each teaching only really makes sense once you’ve done it. And so — you can’t really explain it. You just have to do it.

Vanessa de Souza: Yes, absolutely. That’s so true. It’s difficult to really articulate unless you’re going through it. And if I were to summarise semester two: you are moving at a faster pace, switching between courses week by week. You’re dipping a toe into incredible topics, confronting your own shadows — but doing so in a way that is safe, in a container, with facilitators who are knowledgeable and there to support you. And then clinic weeks give you hands-on practice. By the end, students have far more confidence in their skills.

Jameson Dean: Thank you so much, Vanessa. Any last words?

Vanessa de Souza: I just want to thank you for holding this space and offering transparency to potential and current students about what to expect. That matters so much. And if there’s anything I could say to anyone thinking about doing this — do it. If you’re thinking about it, do it. You will not regret it.

Jameson Dean: Yeah, we’re rather biased, but yeah.

Vanessa de Souza: I know. Exactly. But it’s true. And there will always be a little bit of uncertainty — because Rhodes takes student feedback seriously. Things shift and change with best practices and the times. We can’t say exactly what every moment will look like. But we’re also training students for exactly that — because you’re not going to know what you’re walking into with your clients either.

Jameson Dean: Well said. To anyone listening — you can reach Vanessa at vanessa@rhodescollege.ca and reach me at jameson@rhodescollege.ca. I’m in admissions and happy to speak with you about any of this. And finally — Rhodes Counselling Centre offers free pro bono counselling from our year-two students via Zoom, available to most people in Canada and in some cases internationally. You can find it at rhodescollege.ca. Wishing you all a wonderful day, and be well.

Vanessa de Souza: Thanks, Jameson.

Jameson Dean: Thank you.